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What We May Be

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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Seku [Doneeta-]Luroon » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:31 pm

"But surely after thousands of years we can assume that we have, at least broadly, aligned our Code withnthe Will of the Force?" she said earnestly. "And surely, by the same logic, we can assume that we have understood the nature of the Force in broadly correct terms? Even if we disagree on what particular facet of the Force is dominant we all acknowledge that the Force binds us to Itself and to each other, whether it's through those around us or through part of a greater destiny. And if we acknowledge this then do we not acknowledge that the Force must in some way be guiding our actions and therefore must be a physical, or rather metaphysical, entity rather than just something that can be explained away solely as a scientific curiosity?" Seku stopped speaking, somewhat surprised at the apparent strength of her convictions, convictions she hadn't felt quite so strongly when she had started this conversation. She lowered her head quickly, half expecting a rebuke over some aspect of her questioning, and awaited the master's reply.

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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Unifying Force » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:35 am

"Can we?" A deceptively simple question from the diminutive master. "The code has changed much since the early beginnings of the Order, even more so since the beginnings of what came before the Order. Was that ever even our goal as a group? The ancient Jedi were united by ideals, rather than methods or organization. There was no leadership to state a common purpose, let alone campaign for its pursuit. The Jedi Lords of the Grand Council were too busy leading their respective holdings against the armies of the Brotherhood of Darkness to pursue philosophy. The High Council that followed too entrenched in mundane politics and conservative reformation."

She sighed as she considered where all that had gotten them, wiped out almost to nothing to be replaced with a more rugged and adaptable homage based on a vague understanding of what the Old Jedi Order had been. And even then, the New Jedi Order had evolved much in the mere hundred or so years since its founding. "And all of that is reliant on the assumption that the Force has a will to be aligned with in the first place. You can't, with any certainty, support an assumption with a line of reasoning that's reliant on that same assumption. What logic is there in that? What evidence do you have to support it?"

"Ultimately, these are the questions that likely always kept some from being able to adopt the Living Force philosophy. No matter how reassuring or freeing the Living Force is, there have always been beings who weren't content with the idea of being relieved of responsibility for their actions. Just as 'the devil made me do it' would ring hollow in a court of law 'the Dark Side seduced me' rings hollow to those beings. They believe that all light and darkness comes from within and if you lose your way, if you make terrible decisions, you have no one to blame but yourself."

"Your strongest position is that we are bound together by the Force... but you could say the same of gravity as per my original comparison. Commonality is no reason to attribute personality, young one."
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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Seku [Doneeta-]Luroon » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:02 pm

In truth Seku was a bit put out by all this. It was never particularly pleasant to discover that your arguments downright wrong and/or lacked sufficiant depth and evidance, even if you knew that having this pointed out to you would help you in the long run.

She open her mouth to form a reply, pressing her previous arguments, but thought better of it and ended up by literally biting her lip as she thought out a more measured response. There was a time and a place for everything and in this instance Seku reckoned that it was a time and place to do what she did best, listen and learn.

"I apologise if I spoke out of turn master." she began, her accent thickening ever so slightly, "I will of course defer to your superior knowledge and wisdom. But if I may ask one more question..." she looked up to check whether Tiki had any objections, "Even if all good and evil, light and dark comes from within is there not still at least a possibility that the events which stimulate the aforementioned responses are instigated by a higher power, namely the Force?" she asked, hoping that she had struck the right balance between curiosity and respectfulness.

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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Unifying Force » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:53 pm

"Oh no, dear girl. Your curiosity is one of your greatest assets as a Jedi, and your questions echo my own. I am, by no means, a proponent of the Unifying Force. I'm struggling with these questions as much as you are, perhaps more since the years of my youthful confidence in my own point of view are far behind me now." She patted the younger Jedi's hand with her soft paw-like hand. She then listened attentively as Seku went on to ask if there was any hope for the alternative point of view.

"Well, of course there is. It would be quite the Order shaking realization if all of a sudden 95% of all Jedi throughout history discovered they had just been making excuses. Faith in something unknowable isn't automatically wrong, a great many scientific discoveries required someone to make that leap of logic, to believe in something that nobody had been able to prove or even in things that there was absolutely no evidence to suggest. The followers of the Unifying Force are using pure logic to represent their philosophy, while the followers of the Living Force have chosen to hope for more. Neither is wrong, because both Logic and Hope are the foundations of the Jedi themselves."
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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Seku [Doneeta-]Luroon » Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:27 pm

Seku stopped to take in everything she had just heard; Unifying Forcr, Living Force, Logic, Hope, there was rather a lot to take in. She was still shaken from her original position, and this conversation had raised a great many questions, but even so she felt reassured, that she could still cling to the bedrock that was the Jedi Order as she searched for those answers.

"I think that I'm begining to understand master." she said, " Though as I said before I suspect that it may be some time before I can fully appreciate the subtleties of the different aspects of the Force. But I will do my best to study and learn about them."

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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Unifying Force » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:34 am

"I suspect I have a while before I fully grasp it myself. If you get there before me, do pass along a clue or two for a questioning old woman." Master Tiki turned back to the databooks and resumed reading through them quickly using her Force trick. "If you ever decide to study in depth and find yourself wanting to speak to someone who's spent a great deal of time pondering the two philosophies just let me know. I call a pair of adherents to the Unifying Force my friends, and the younger of the two would be all too happy to bend your ear on the subject."

After a moment Tiki paused. "Is there anything else you'd like to ask about?"
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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Seku [Doneeta-]Luroon » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:35 pm

This time Seku didn't supress a moment of something halfway between a giggle and a guffaw before she resumed listening to Master Tiki. "Oh thank you. I'd love to meet them if it's no trouble to arrange."

Now it was Seku's turn to glance once again at the stack of datapads, slightly less than a handful left now, a few minutes work at most. She grinned with satisfaction at the thought of a job well done, or a job done at any rate.

"Nothing that I can think of off the top of my head master." she said, "But no doubt something will crop up in the not too distant future."

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Re: What We May Be

PostAuthor: Unifying Force » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:45 pm

"It's no trouble to arrange, one or the other will eventually come to Ossus and inevitably come to see me. One for tea, the other to tease me about something or other. That's one of his favorite pass-times when on Ossus, there's so little else to occupy him here." She said the last bit in motherly tone of mild concern, as if worried about one of her children. Tiki was well known amongst the youngest members of the Order. She rarely taught any of the basic lessons but she constantly passed through the housing area to mother them, so many of the Younglings were long separated from their families.

"When it does, you are more than welcome to come by and ask. I enjoy questions. Or, rather, I enjoy the pursuit of answers. Never know what kind of lovely places such pursuits might take you." Tiki tugged on an ear for a moment. "That's how I met my husband, in fact."
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